That change ultimately defined the record. The goal was always to dig deeper - “We knew we wanted to bring back the heart of our first EP ‘Mother Father’ and make people feel something deeper, hopefully” - but reality pushed it further. “We didn’t expect the life loss at that time, of course, so I suppose the album went even deeper and more introspective from there.”

Even at its heaviest, though, the album isn’t trying to stay in that space. “There are a few songs that touch on the desire to quit with suicidal thoughts, like in our songs 'Ceremony' and 'Kill the Light', but even those really dark moments, we wanted to show hope that something better is coming and that we have the power in us to change our circumstances. That has been the light guiding me through all this loss and pain.”

That balance is basically the whole point of ‘Shadow Work/Light Work’. “We knew early we wanted that to be the tone, and I love the duality in that.” At one stage, that nearly meant splitting the project entirely. “We were first thinking about releasing two EPs that would become a full double-sided vinyl, but after discussing with our team, we all felt a full-length sophomore album was a stronger statement on where the band is now and the sound we have been creating since our last EP, 'Cult Classic'.”

Instead, the idea stuck in a different way. “We still wanted to keep the duality in there, so we have a double cover where you choose your own adventure and variants.” More importantly, it gave Leon a framework while writing. “Having a structure did help navigate the harder themes. We wanted to be delicate with how we were proposing such intrusive thoughts for relatability, but also empowering the listener, vs depressing everyone, if that makes sense? 'Shadow Work' and 'Light Work' as like a workbook journal guide helped me process all these thoughts, so lyrically it could have a positive effect.”

A lot of that processing happened out in Joshua Tree, where Leon and guitarist/producer Nick Perez stripped things back. “Nick and I wrote and recorded almost all of the album in our Joshua Tree home, and I noticed how much we were capable of together when we cut out the noise around us and just went inwards.”

Turns out, quite a lot. “I believe that’s when you can get something truly authentic to where you are at in your life and career. There’s a confidence in the way we shaped this album and the songs we chose for it that perhaps we didn’t have prior.” And this time, they trusted it. “It’s easy to second-guess everything and compare your work to others and have imposter syndrome, but we followed what we really wanted to write and an album we are truly proud of… and from there, how it is received is not up to us and no matter what, I am truly glad this album exists.”

You can hear that in the scale of it. The brief this time was simple: go bigger. “We really wanted to not limit ourselves to something we have done in the past and instead allow ourselves to do whatever we want to do. This time around, we aimed to make things sound bigger and more impactful while also bringing that chills-inducing factor back to our band again.”

For Leon, that meant pushing her voice further, too. “Nick’s production definitely expanded on this one; he took the music into sounds he probably has been wanting to take it for quite a while. I remember him saying, ‘I want people to feel something from this, bigger music for bigger stages'.” She adds, “I started screaming more because I felt that emotion needed to be there, so I worked with Melissa Cross to develop my fry screaming, but also went back to a more melodic performance… But we knew this new album should show more of my singing and create melodies that would stay with people.”

There are still a few left turns in there. For example, “Our sixth song, 'I.F.O.Y.G', an acronym for 'I’ll fuck on your grave'. That one closes the 'Shadow Work' side, and though the lyrics are the most aggressive from the album, the sound of the song is softer, leaning more into a Phantogram/Lana Del Rey vibe.” It’s very deliberate. “We wanted that juxtaposition, and even Nick’s guitar solo has such a sexy tone to it that I remember sending the demo to a friend, and his words were, ‘I want to fuck to this song’, haha. Even our label mentioned that it’s a good palate cleanser for the album, so I feel that one will be a nice surprise for our fans.”

If anything’s already proved itself, it’s ‘Ceremony’. Before release, it was already landing live. “That one we knew was gonna be great when released, just based on the first reactions from the crowd across EU/UK and the US. Instantly, the crowds all started jumping and moshing on that one, and we would get messages from fans asking how soon it was coming out.”

More broadly, playing the new material out has confirmed that things are working. “It’s definitely a great sign when an unreleased song is played on tour, and the reaction is even better than some previously released music. We started playing some of the new album music live, and you could just feel a shift in the crowd on those songs that really gave us the confidence that this album will be a game changer.”

That confidence has been building for a while. A year of festivals, support slots, and generally levelling up will do that. “The more we play in front of a live audience, the better we get, I feel. It truly does inform how you write and perform, and sharing stages with icons and some of our favourite bands is so inspiring that it gives you this unrelenting motivation to be better and give the audience a show they walk away from wanting more.”

For them, it’s less about perfection, more about impact. “We, of course, care about how well it sounds live, but really care about the energy mainly. I’m always chasing catharsis, and live music should give you some form of that.”

There have been a few moments where it’s felt like things are properly taking off. “We have had milestones for sure that we have crossed, and felt like we need to keep going and build this even more. Opening for Evanescence was definitely a huge one there, and being asked back felt like this is where we belong. I would also say touring those major festivals gives you this high that you want to keep alive.”

So, where to now? Pretty straightforward. “Sky high, baby, haha. We plan to keep touring and bigger stages, building our Holy Wars family, and we are aiming to start headlining tours and selling them out.” And creatively, they’re keeping things open. “Musically, we plan to keep going in this direction, but we always need a diverse sound, so we will continue to experiment with new sounds, and what we want to say next is still unknown, and that’s exciting to me.”

After everything that fed into ‘Shadow Work/Light Work’, there’s also a sense of shift. “Definitely, I think the pain I felt while making this record needed to heal and though grief and life itself is a journey. I feel like this is a new chapter that I am ready for, and that is also present in the band. This feels like a new chapter all around, and what happens next, I guess we’ll find out.”

Holy Wars' album 'Shadow Work/Light Work' is out now.